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Did Todd Bentley knee or kick a Man in the Stomach to Heal Him?

Over at Gentle Wisdom Peter Kirk defends the action of the famed Todd Bentley not as a kick to the stomach but as a knee to the stomach. You see, David Warnock has charged Todd Bentley with kicking the man in the stomach as part of the healing and that such proves that he’s not for real but a false prophet. Check out this video and tell me what really happened:

Whether he kneed the man as Peter Kirk argues or kicked the man as David Warnock argues, Does it really matter? Should the genuineness of a miracle be determined by whether a man was kicked or kneed in the stomach?

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TC Robinson

BIO. I’m Thomas “T.C” Robinson, a Christian by conversion and an ordained minister in the Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC). Let’s talk faith and culture in light of Scripture, tradition, and reason, which are gifts to the Body of Christ. “For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.” -Paul the Apostle, Romans 11:36 NIV

36 responses to “Did Todd Bentley knee or kick a Man in the Stomach to Heal Him?”

  1. Nick Norelli Avatar
    Nick Norelli

    Definitely not a kick, but a knee is inappropriate as well. That being said, a knee to the stomach does not a false prophet make by any definition.

    Reply
  2. tc robinson Avatar
    tc robinson

    Yes, it’s inappropriate either way, but all this is so controversial. Must a man be first hurt before he can be healed by the one doing the healing? Again, I see no biblical correspondence.

    Reply
  3. Iyov Avatar
    Iyov

    I don’t know TC. Let’s consider two possibilities:

    (a) Todd Bentley is a real healer. If this is the case, then a short painful act in the course of healing is entirely appropriate (this happens all the time when I go to the dentist!)

    (b) Todd Bentley is a fraud, but that his efforts work nonetheless because of the power of suggestion. If this is the case, and the man receives real relief as a result of the act, then this is also good. Todd Bentley is acting no more cruel than one a typical chiropractor does. One needs to remember — real relief from placebo is still real relief.

    Now, I will keep my own opinions on the matter to myself. But the man didn’t seem to be unhappy at all.

    Reply
  4. Peter Kirk Avatar
    Peter Kirk

    TC, thanks for asking the question.

    Iyov, thanks for the support from an unexpected quarter!

    Nick, I agree with you that a knee is not significantly more acceptable than a kick. My main point was that the critics need to get their facts right if anyone is to take them seriously. I wrote this in a comment on my own post:

    I am afraid that at least in my eyes the critics of such things destroy their credibility and so lose their argument when they distort and exaggerate what is actually happening.

    Reply
  5. Peter Kirk Avatar
    Peter Kirk

    Iyov and TC, see also what I have written in this new comment which quotes Iyov’s one here.

    Reply
  6. Anonymous Avatar
    Anonymous

    Iyov,

    Just to point out that “relief” is not the same as healing. If I broke my leg and was in severe pain, a doctor could give me a morphine injection and I would be pain-free (and feeling very happy!) for a while. That’s relief, but the underlying problem is still there.

    The issue with Todd, quite apart from the ethics of kicking or kneeing someone, is that he would claim that the man was healed, not given a psycho-somatic painkiller. I hope we hear what the actual outcome is.

    A few weeks ago, Todd did proclaim that a Pastor Larry Reed was healed of cancer. Pastor Reed died a few days later from the same condition.

    I think that’s enough to suggest that Bentley is a fraud.

    Good shabbos!

    Reply
  7. Dave Avatar
    Dave

    I’m not really sure what to think about Todd Bentley, but his methods appear to be unorthodox to say the least. I think Peter might be splitting hairs a bit if someone is saying kick and not knee. I have heard an audio clip of TB saying that the Holy Spirit told him to kick an old woman in the face (he was describing what God told him to do to make the revival take off), and he says he did it (I will try to find this and post it). Now, in my mind, that at least suggests that he is willing to kick someone as well as knee them, so what difference does it make?

    I wonder a little if God would use such unorthodox methods to heal people instead of laying on hands or prayer like in the NT. It seems as though its more likely to cause confusion and division (as it is evidently doing in Christendom) instead of uniting people and showing the Glory of God. But, on the other hand, if there is genuine healing, doesn’t it have to be from God? Its all confusing to me…

    Reply
  8. Peter Kirk Avatar
    Peter Kirk

    Dave, that audio clip about Todd kicking an old lady is several years old, so not to do with the current outpouring. Also it is from a highly edited video which doesn’t allow anyone to judge the full context. That doesn’t justify it of course but does put it in perspective.

    Reply
  9. Dave Avatar
    Dave

    Peter,

    Thats interesting… The source where I heard it made it sound as though it was related to the current outpouring. I need to do some more homework, thats for sure.

    Reply
  10. Scripture Zealot Avatar
    Scripture Zealot

    It would be interesting to see if there are any instances in the Bible where someone was physically hurt before they were physically healed.

    When somebody says, “The Holy Spirit told me…” it obviously needs to be measured against Scripture.

    Todd Bentley. (That’s so you’ll get more Google hits.)
    Jeff

    Reply
  11. tc robinson Avatar
    tc robinson

    Iyov said: “One needs to remember — real relief from placebo is still real relief.”

    Should we only understand what Todd Bentley is doing as placebos? Or attribute it all to the power of suggestion?

    Reply
  12. Dave Avatar
    Dave

    Iyov said: “One needs to remember — real relief from placebo is still real relief.”

    I think that the NT model of healing would be Jesus. I don’t think there is any case of Christ healing that could be attributed as a “placebo.” He offered real healing from real legitimate physical needs. A placebo may work for a headache providing psychological relief long enough for the headache to pass, but a placebo won’t cure blindness, leprosy, cancer, etc.

    Reply
  13. tc robinson Avatar
    tc robinson

    Dave said: “I think that the NT model of healing would be Jesus. I don’t think there is any case of Christ healing that could be attributed as a ‘placebo.’”

    Great points, Dave! What we’re seeing with Todd Bentley is completely different.

    Reply
  14. Stan McCullars Avatar
    Stan McCullars

    TC said: Should we only understand what Todd Bentley is doing as placebos? Or attribute it all to the power of suggestion?

    Another two possibilities, among countless others would be that the people who are allegedly being healed:

    – are not being truthful about their experience.

    – feel as though they have to “confess their healing”; otherwise they would be demonstrating a lack of faith and thus not be healed.

    I suspect the second group would be more common than the first group.

    Reply
  15. tc robinson Avatar
    tc robinson

    Stan, yes, those are real possibilities. According to Scripture we have a responsibility to be discerning.

    Reply
  16. Roger Avatar
    Roger

    I just was told that this video was out on the internet, I am the guy on the video. I have seen this called an assault & numerous other things. Let me set the record straight that this was not an assault and it did not hurt. i would love to share what has transpired since then, but I’m not sure how much space this will give me. If anyone wants to talk in detail, please feel free to send me an e-mail at kaitrod12@msn.com. Many wonderful things have happened. I give all the praise to God, not Todd. Too many people have lost the true focus of things. May you all be blessed and I pray that I can share what has happened with me to some of you.

    Reply
  17. tc robinson Avatar
    tc robinson

    Roger, thanks for stopping and being willing to share you testimony. I hope to send you an email to learn more about what transpired that night and to learn more about Mr. Todd Bentley. Thank you, once again.

    Reply
  18. tc robinson Avatar
    tc robinson

    I sent an email to Mr. Roger.

    Reply
  19. localpastor Avatar
    localpastor

    Was the man healed?

    Reply
  20. tc robinson Avatar
    tc robinson

    Localpastor, the man in question has posted 16th comment on this post above. Roger is open to questions about his experience. Feel free to contact him. Thanks for stopping by.

    Reply
  21. Stan McCullars Avatar
    Stan McCullars

    Can Roger’s healing be verified?

    Would that have any bearing on the insanity that is Todd Bentley?

    Reply
  22. tc robinson Avatar
    tc robinson

    Stan, I’ve received a lengthy reply from Mr. Roger, and I plan to read it soon and post my reflections, of course with his permission.

    Reply
  23. Stan McCullars Avatar
    Stan McCullars

    TC, Thanks. I look forward to it. I wish Roger nothing but the best.

    Reply
  24. Bene D Avatar
    Bene D

    Roger chose this blog, of course he’d respond to you TC.
    I think you can appreciate people would like to read what he has to say. The questions are valid.

    Roger was broadcast as being is in stage 4 colon cancer – he doesn’t need thousands of people writing him. Let’s not be naive.

    Whether you are prepared or not, Roger showed up at your blog, I can empathize with the pressure you are facing. My compassion remains with Roger.

    Nor do I think you’ve lost sight of the sorry reality thousands of concerned people saw him hit the floor, many who won’t care about bothering a dying man.

    If you verified this is the Roger on the video – let him speak.

    TC, I’m a reporter, I have no qualms asking Roger hard questions, nor posting his responses unedited.

    Again, I know you are not naive, people are aware of those who have attended Lakeland and died.
    This isn’t about Bentley this is about Roger.

    Make no mistake, foremost I am a Christian who will not subject a cancer patient to the relentless scrutiny I know media can bring.

    If you are worried about bandwidth, presentation, verification, dissemination, I’m willing to help you any way I can with the mutual understanding your primary responsibility of care isn’t your reflections, or Bentley mania, it’s Roger.

    It’s up to you.

    Reply
  25. tc robinson Avatar
    tc robinson

    Bene D, I posted on what I thought was a compelling piece. Roger chose this blog, aright, but no one pressed him into coming here. I’ve already emailed Roger and received a response.

    I too am searching for answers like many others who have heard about Lakeland and Todd Bentley. I wish to give the matter a fair day in court.

    I trust that Roger is indeed the man in the video. Thanks for your offer, but I’m confined to this blog.

    Reply
  26. Bene D Avatar
    Bene D

    Thanks TC, you misunderstand what I’m offering and asking.

    I know you are confined to your blog, I know you are a busy minister, compassionate, careful; I’m not going to be contacting reporter friends in the US to chase Rogers story.
    You have Rogers story and his attention.

    So you didn’t ask him to show up. Tough. He picked you and your blog, show him respect and share what he has to say.

    You said and Roger have corresponded, I believe you. and you said you were going to add your reflections.
    Post what he wrote you, reflect later.

    Personally trusting Roger is the man in the video is fine for you; be realistic, ask for proof he is the gentleman in the video. Example: A photo for comparison.

    The Bentley handlers are not at all happy with the criticisms, and not at all happy with react to the Roger video.
    You and Roger are perfectly capable of show readers he is or is not a Fresh Fire plant, a deflection/plant. Or not.

    Ask for permission to to print his email. If I was in state 4 cancer, who went to a faith healer, I’d ramble. So would you. It’s human.
    Let him speak.

    Ask Roger if he’d be willing to engage with commenters under that correspondence post and answer questions if he is well enough. You have good moderatoring skills.

    I’m sorry I wasn’t clear TC.

    You are sitting on information; “I’ve already emailed Roger and received a response” “No one pressed him to come here.”

    But he did.
    You were given an amazing opportunity to communicate with Roger. Again lets not be naive, I doubt he has the energy to answer what may be a flood of email. Do you have any idea of how many people are looking for him to find out how he is and what happened to him?

    You are being given an opportunity to share his experience with thousands who are concerned, and you, TC, appears to have been given the trust of a dying man.

    Let him speak.

    It’s up to you.

    Reply
  27. tc robinson Avatar
    tc robinson

    Bene D, sorry for the misunderstanding. I’m waiting for Roger to give me permission to post his response to my questions. Thanks for your concern.

    Reply
  28. Roger’s story – the stage 4 cancer patient assaulted by Todd Bentley at Bene Diction Blogs On

    […] TC Robinson at New Leaven has begun posting Roger’s responses to nine of his questions he asked after Roger surfaced in […]

    Reply
  29. Duncan Avatar
    Duncan

    I know about this from a personal point of view, the man R***** is a friend of mine.
    We took him to FL to get healed.
    He had stage 4 abdominal cancer.
    He was healed.
    When he came back to TX he had blood work and CT scans to prove!

    Reply
  30. Gary Geier Avatar
    Gary Geier

    I have an idea. Why not get your eyes off Todd Bentley, or any man for that matter, and get them on God. Furthermore, be careful, I wouldn’t examine other people too much before I had examined myself. Remember, the Pharisee’s attributed what Jesus did to Him performing such miracles by the prince of demons. There are at least two warnings you should receive here: First, attributing something to the devil, that is of God is BLASPHEMING the Holy Spirit, which will not be forgiven in this age, or the age to come. Second, Jesus said, didn’t you get it? That a Kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. It amazes me how those who use the language of piety are the most profoundly proud. Furthermore, I have repeatedly watched the video’s many of you have posted of Todd.(I did not know about him before) Question. There is so much evil in this world, why do you pick on one of those who claims to be one of us rather than exhort him to continue seeking the Lord? Could it be that there is a new pharisee in town? THE “CHRISTIAN” PHARISEE? It is utterly sickening to me that anyone would spend time questioning these things openly before having spent MANY, I said MANY hours before the Lord, then you would have your answer. Additionally, God’s callings and gifts are without repentance. What does that mean? Lastly, let me reiterate this point: A person should be careful in how they speak of another, you do not know at what point God has them and to judge them only DISQUALIFIE’s yourself. I can back up every single sentence I have written with scripture. I will leave that to the one’s who are dead already, straigning gnats while swallowing camels. REPENT AND READ JOHN 17

    Reply
  31. tc robinson Avatar
    tc robinson

    Duncan, thanks for the information on Roger.

    Gary, What is wrong in being obedient to the following Scripture:

    Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. (1 John 5:1, TNIV)

    Are we to just sit back and accept gullibly everyone that comes in the name of Jesus? I don’t think such an irresponsible attitude sits well with Scripture.

    Sorry, but I don’t see a critical look into the claims of Lakeland as being judgmental and pharisiacal.

    Reply
  32. Scripture Zealot Avatar
    Scripture Zealot

    What TC said.

    Gary said:
    Why not get your eyes off Todd Bentley, or any man for that matter, and get them on God.

    Todd Bentley wants your eyes on Todd Bentley.
    Jeff

    Reply
  33. Peter Kirk Avatar
    Peter Kirk

    Jeff, perhaps if you put your eyes on Todd Bentley for a few hours you would see him telling you to put them on God.

    Reply
  34. Scripture Zealot Avatar
    Scripture Zealot

    I admit that was a bit of a cheap shot especially given that I haven’t watched a few hours of him. I’ve tried to stay out of all this but couldn’t help but state an opinion from what I’ve seen which is too much already.

    To make up for it I’ll say that I don’t think the press is going to get very far in finding “evidence”. Whether the healings are real or not, trying to find hard evidence of God isn’t the way to go, as we know. And as TC said in a previous post, “they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead”.

    If I was healed and the press asked me to provide proof, I don’t know if I would want to go to all the trouble to provide documentation. That’s a lot of work. And people still wouldn’t believe anyway.

    On the other hand exhibiting all that bravado and committing assault in order to heal isn’t exactly a “good witness”.

    There has been an outpouring in my life because of some suffering and this has positively affected my family and people in our Bible study.

    I would think these things would be measured by the fruit that results and this can’t be seen immediately. Time will tell.
    Jeff

    Reply
  35. Rev Raymond King Avatar
    Rev Raymond King

    It scares me to see and hear the ways the modern day preachers are using the gospel of Jesus, and I pray that this thing
    that is called revival is real. I know God can heal because He has touched me many times when I was in distress and
    not one time was I hit or punched or kicked to get results
    I called on the elders of the church as the gospel told me to and they annointed me with oil and prayed the prayer of faith and the Lord healed me. Now you tell me does God have to go to such lengths to bring healing? After all the miracles God performs when He does is for His glory and not for mans. I am a minister of the gospel myself and never have I heard of such outrageous antics as these.
    May God have mercy on anyone who adds to or takes away from the words of this book called the Bible.

    Reply
  36. ramon Avatar
    ramon

    I find it very dumb when someone use subtitles in a video, to force his ideas and meanings.

    Reply

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